Arena Season 8

[RedYoshi45]

@kennymcc
What you’re asking for is basically perfect random, though. Because if you take the influencing factors away, all you’ve got left is random. True random. Fair random. The only kind of random that is actually random.

[KennyMcC]

@smwforever45
I am not sure that perfect random can be created :) but if it is possible, why not use it :)

[Bubbley]

@datguygamer @angryjohnny @kennymcc I don’t understand a single thing you are discussing. I have noticed that @datguygamer said the cheater set has a major role to play. Why, how, where? This disgusts me. I have it I will never use it.

@kennymcc no I can’t remember exactly but it was of course a CG opponent ans therefore Red, Chuck, Matilda.

[RedYoshi45]

@kennymcc
Why impossible? If you can make a truly random variable in Java then it should be possible in most other programming languages too. Just create an integer number between 0 and 99, and values from 0 to 49 are a loss and 50 to 99 are a win. That’s a perfect 50:50 chance.

@bubbley
From what I’m understanding @datguygamer has spotted the point in the code where the result of the coin toss is determined. Besides the normal “random” 50/50 chance, it also plays a role whether the opponent has the Rage Chilli (which will be the case in 90% of all matches), whether the opponent is a computer-generated one (which, right now, is the case in 90% of all matches as well), and whether you or the opponent use the Cheater set or not. But unlike the first two, Cheater’s effect is at least clearly visible in the game. The Rage Chilli and the CG opponents also negatively influence the coin toss it seems – which may explain why we never get a true 50-50 ratio, and which may also explain why I always had the feeling that I lost the tosses more often to CG opponents than to others.

@datguygamer
Does the power level of your opponent have an influence on the coin toss outcome too? If yes, how? I saw speculation about this weeks or even months ago but no real clarification. I’d assume that if your power level is higher, then you’d be more likely to win the toss, but that’s rather unlikely for me, especially when playing with my 2-bird strategy.

[BF10]

Yep, the toss is more fair and does not always give you coin losses or wins in rows. I tried and I managed to get some losses and some wins.

[Pointless]

@bubbley @kennymcc the Birds and Sets used are key here, I think. I have definitely noticed something funny with the interpretation of an attack on a target Chuck based on this. Case in point, I just had my Chuck KOd by a Bard buffed by Illusionist’s mirror attack (can’t recall the name, but you all know what I mean). The second 50% attack resulted in the KO and my Paladin and SeaDog just stood there, sans retaliation. Much like I see with my SeaDog with Gang Up, regardless if the damage is caused by a direct attack or any AoE from said attack.

[ShapokoManbeast]

@dallasreds

Haha players name is Zizu, was just fishing for a reaction. Pretty sure they are a cheat, put up 20000 in under 4 hours after already finishing objectives.

Could just be using tons of FE. They may not even know they are on my board the way Rovio operates?

[datguygamer]

@smwforever45 Power level does not play a factor is toss whatsoever. There’s nothing in the files that indicates it. It is only applicable for match making and nothing else.

@bubbley It’s no surprise that the set now affects major part of the toss. That’s why it’s there.

[Bubbley]

@datguygamer it’s not a surprise but to aim to force the use of a particular set and class is what I find distasteful.

@pointless @kennymcc I do remember that no birds were buffed. It was the first round and all 3 enemy birds attacked. All my opponents are CG 61/15. The banners are not set but the birds are always more powerful than mine so my Wizard goes down quite easily.

On another point is it just me who has never seen a non CG opponent since this update? @smwforever45 I believe you do meet “real” players. Thanks for the explanation by the way.

[RedYoshi45]

@bubbley
Yeah I do still meet non-CG opponents. I had two yesterday, of which one used Blues on their team. But it happens very, very rarely. As I said above, 90% of my opponents are CG.

[KennyMcC]

@smwforever45
And what algorithm generates those numbers between 0 and 99 :)?

[KennyMcC]

@bubbley
I met/meet non-CG opponents too, I think the similar way like @smwforever45.

[KennyMcC]

@pointless @bubbley
Can u confirm that Mirror Image attack (Illusionist buf) does not trigger Last Will attacks when it defeats Chuck? Have u seen this situation only once? I want to remove any coincidence :) Is your Last Will triggered if your Chuck is KOed by Ganged Up Seadog?

[Bubbley]

@kennymcc I never see any bomb but I often face an Illusionist I will watch for it. But honestly if my Catain is standing I dispel it.

[KennyMcC]

@bubbley
Try to use non-Captain class ;) Enemy Birds almost always attack my Chuck regardless of their Classes in my Last Will setup, so they prefer direct attack over any defensive ability.

[Bubbley]

@kennymcc for the sake of the data. I will use Seadog.

[AudioMan612]

Pardon if this has already been mentioned, but is anyone fighting the same three birds over and over? For nearly every battle lately, I am against Red, Chuck, and Matilda (though the classes differ). This is making the already monotonous arena even more so…

[angryde]

@audioman612 You’re not alone. It’s much easier… but so much more boring!!

[RedYoshi45]

@kennymcc
randomGenerator.nextInt(100) in Java…
Tell me how to predict the output. You can’t.

[KennyMcC]

@smwforever45
I believe it has very good random mechanism that is very close to prefect random ;) I would be very happy if such random mechanism is implemented in ABE (or any game) without any strange influence ;)

[KennyMcC]

@smwforever45 @datguygamer
I made 14 battles since last “EPIC” message. Coinflip won 4, lost 10 :) I know, not so much battles, but it can show something :) Will see more when I collect more battles :)
I had always negative coinflip ratio when making any example of battles since last update :)

[Dallasreds]

@shapokomanbeast

On my board :
1 you. 87795
2 poppabear 84465
3 me 57595
Are you seeing a different name for 2nd place?

[ShapokoManbeast]

@dallasreds

Haha yeah, sorry I thought maybe you had looked through Suzyq’s posts and mine beforehand.

She is ghosting on my board in 2nd place and I’m not on hers. I am ghosting on your board but you don’t appear on mine

[burbman]

Just a thought regarding coin flip. I honestly do not remember the last time I lost a battle in which I won the toss, it is such a huge advantage, especially for a live player who can adjust strategy based on opponent. Perhaps it is best for the game overall to have a slight inherent disadvantage to the live player versus the AI algorithms in order to make the game challenging enough to warrant continued play.

Right now, with 90%+ of opponents being CG, without banner sets, the point is mute, as I win 99% of my battles regardless of the outcome of the coin.

All this changes when faced with real teams, who are as powerful, or even stronger than my own, losing the toss is an equally huge disadvantage and back when I was losing 90% of the tosses, three losses easily came before daily objectives were met. My suggestion to help balance this, that I proposed way back when the arena first appeared, is to have the losing team adopt a “defensive” posture prior to the attack by having all birds automatically trigger their support ability. It would certainly prompt players to try out new combinations and might change the game dynamics.

We can talk about concepts like “a fair toss” and the like, but in reality, as long as all players are playing the game with the same set of rules, the game is ultimately “fair”. Is the table tilted against the player? YES, but in that respect so are all the games in Vegas. As long as all the players you are playing against have to overcome the same odds to succeed, all is good.

[Suikyo]

@smwforever45 random numbers generated in Java are pseudo-random.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation#Computational_methods